Recorded a few weeks ago, we've only just round to posting it but I hope you enjoy it.

We went round the houses on a few things, but started off talking about love and what it might have to do with organisations.

Show notes below, you know the drill: unreliable blah blah.... timings approximate yadda yadda... rough paraphrasing etc etc... don't take literally, rhubarb rhubarb.

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Show notes

0.00 Intros, Hugh forgets who "the Scottish guy is" and isn't sure what Euan does but settles for rock star.

1.00 Hugh sets up the idea of love, recalling a talk about this by Euan at Reboot.

1.45 Euan talks about the L word, and people's reactions to it. It's about people's basic desire to connect to each other, caring about things, getting passionate about things. So much of the business world sanitises passion out of things.

3.15 Pinny wonders about how companies show love. References Lovemarks. In relationships, if you don't go to the nth degree, everything else doesn't count. Talks about how mistakes by Facebook and Apple get pounced on by the blogosphere.

4.40 Lovemarks proves a red rag to Johnnie's bull. Love means different things to different people. Johnnie wary of the fanatical idea of love, the pursuit of perfection. It's more about being human, fallible.

5.50 Euan chimes in against fixation on the romantic idea of love. Instead favours "the passion that grows out of day-to-day stuff".

6.45 Hugh asks Euan about his World Service experience at the BBC.

7.30 Euan: Roughly 47 different language services in the same building. Lots of characters, different cultures. "If you were climbing ladders, they were all against different walls." - so less ego and tribalism than in the rest of the BBC. You had to get on quickly with people, the ability to engage and connect, and move ideas round the building was a formative experience.

9.00 Product of World Service is ideas but also the kind of intimacy you can create on radio.

9.50 Hugh talks about the purpose idea - what are we here for, why are we doing this. Trying to get a sense of purpose going.

10.30 Euan: purpose is good, so is obliqueness. Says what he likes about podcasts is that they are not like broadcasts. Meandering semi-conversations that get under skin in a different way than stuff projected at you in broadcasts. Conventional radio output sounds increasingly patronising.

12.20 Euan on how he pays each month to support Leo Laporte's podcasts, more than half he pays in the BBC licence fee. "That's me doing that to an individual because I really don't want him to stop podcasting." People will pay for stuff that's passionate and accessible.

13.00 Hugh contrasts Euan's story with a UK show, Newsnight Review and its affiliation with the Notting Hill cultural elite. New media is a threat, not so much to cash as to old media privilege.

14.30 Euan recalls David Weinberger saying conversations can only take place between equals.

15.00 Hugh on fanboys.

15.20 Hugh asks Pinny a question "as the only guy here with a real job": does this podcast affect your business.

16.10 Pinny: it's not affecting the business... what it affected is how people view him. Discusses impact on his employees with Hugh.

18.45 Hugh on podcasts as disruptors. Euan says disruption is a word with all sorts of baggage but we get involved in this stuff because it makes a difference. How can governance cope with these changes? It's going to change power dynamics and who is successful and why.

21.10 Pinny returns to the theme of love, inspired by his nephew's wedding where a Rabbi talked about what happens when you aren't in love with love, but with the other. Companies need to own up to mistakes.

23.00 Hugh: gosh, act like a human being, not a robot. Johnnie: intimacy an important word in Euan's story. There's something about "ordinary smallness", the ability to have a real conversation; how meetings that strive to be effective often fail. The need to feel each other as human beings.

24.30 Hugh on how small town, West Texas experience has affected him. How it's safe to have a guy walking round with a ten inch knife, because everyone knows who he is and what the knife is for. Euan reminisces about Glasgow and Pinny, Israel.

27.20 Euan: the danger of homogenisation of success. Quote Doc Searls about things being valuable without being important.

28.00 Johnnie on spending Sunday morning with the papers and someone else, where you don't talk but there's a feeling of companionship. You can't put that on a spreadsheet.

29.15 Johnnie on a twitter-related experience of finding work in a very accidental way. If fell out of a conversation where he wasn't trying to make something happen.

30.30 Pinny: the unplanned as the eureka moments of our lives. Getting beyond ego.

32.10 Pinny on the online course Oprah is doing with Eckhart Tolle. This is why the web was created: to spread goodwill.

33.00 Hugh: a lot of people are trying to use the web to do business the way it's usually been done, which misses the point.

34.00 Euan wonders about how these changes connect to our spirituality. Hugh recalls a Catholic priest who influenced him. God as a metaphor rather than a bearded sky fairy.

35.40 Pinny the web is teaching religion to say it's about human beings, not about God. It's teaching companies it's about what the customer wants to pull, not what the company wants to push. Strip away the disease of entitlement and learn humility. Connects to the rise of Barack Obama.

37.20 Johnnie on the difference between Clinton and Obama. Clinton's positioning as the leader, Obama's emphasis on us.

38.20 Euan: authority used to mean authority as conferred; now it means having a compelling argument or idea.

39.00 Johnnie on authority as being the authors of our own experience. You don't take authority from the BBC any more, you participate.

40.00 Hugh wraps by asking what advice we'd give corporate man in light of all this. Euan: be brave. Pinny: don't be stupid ("Be brave but have a day job") Empty your mid once a day for opportunity to happen. Hugh: be compassionate to those above you. Johnnie: you already know what to do.

44.35 Ends

Here's a definition of that pesky and borderline elitist phrase, 'knowledge worker'. A knowledge worker is someone whose job entails having really interesting conversations at work.

The characteristics of conversations map to the conditions for genuine knowledge generation and sharing: they're unpredictable interactions among people speaking in their own voice about something they're interested in. The conversants implicitly acknowledge that they don't have all the answers (or else the conversation is really a lecture) and risk being wrong in front of someone else. And conversations overcome the class structure of business, suspending the organization chart at least for a little while.

If you think about the aim of Knowledge Management as enabling better conversations rather than lassoing stray knowledge doggies, you end up focusing on breaking down the physical and class barriers to conversation. And if that's not what Knowledge Management is really about, then you ought to be doing it anyway

I think this gets across how SiCamp managed to get geeks and non-geeks together, and how much energy is created by people working on things with a higher purpose that they care about. It also says something about what makes me excited about the Web: not the technology, but how technology allows us to be better at being human.

Kudos to NESTA and many other good folks for sponsoring this. (Disclosure: NESTA are a client of mine)

Washington from May 9th to 11th.
Chicago from May 12th to 14th.
Boston from May 15th to 17th.
Toronto from May 18th to 20th.
Detroit from May 21st to 22nd.
New York from May 23rd to 27th.
Seattle from May 26th to 29th.
San Francisco from May 29th to 31st.
Los Angeles from June 1st to 2nd.

It reminded me of the opening of the Old Bailey archives last month. They included the case of a 13 year old boy hanged for stealing a sheep - here in England, less than two centuries ago.

Blimey. As a species, we have come a very long way in a short space of evolutionary time. It's an interesting sidelight on our response to other countries that today fall short on human rights. In a sense, they're only a few generations behind us in their cultural development although that's no reason to feel anything but revulsion at torture and abuse. (And deep concern at any attempts to legitimise them in countries that ought to know better.)

What times we live in. In some ways, human life on this planet seems so endangered; and on the other hand it seems as though we've made extraordinary leaps in the way we think of and value each other as human beings.

So this new blog is worth a look: Illusion Sciences

Hat tip: Andrew Sullivan

The first features a guy who learnt how to move huge stones using small ones. He shows how, on his own, he can move a one-ton block 300 feet per hour. Then he shows how he can move a whole barn using the same principles or lift a massive block up high. Remarkable. As I say to Chris in our chat, it rehabilitates the whole of idea of leverage in organisations.

He says that "gravity is my favourite tool" and I love the notion of using the least effort to achieve a result. What a great video - I'd think of showing it to a group of people trying to tackle a challenge as a bit of inspiration.

Chris other choices are equally engaging, and if you listen to the podcast, see if you get as seduced by Chris' worldview as I always do.

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As Roland says

Over 40m US citizens are self employed 'free agents' and 20% of UK workforce will soon be working from home. Whilst the UK would surely benefit from more brands that act as hubs in the global economy, there are many examples of small companies or even individuals who act as powerful nodes which can be more agile, responsive and dare I say it, innovative.